The Dental Billing Podcast
Dental billing is not data entry. It's the difference between a practice that collects what it earned and one that writes it off and calls it the cost of doing business.
The Dental Billing Podcast is hosted by Ericka Aguilar and Jen Lyman, RDH. Ericka has been a dental biller since 1998 and has taught billing in 31 states and Mexico. Jen came out of the operatory and now runs Lyman Revenue Solutions, handling both dental and medical billing. One of us knows exactly what the carrier is going to do with your claim. The other one knows what actually happened in that chair. You get both.
Every week we break down denials, appeals, coding, and the carrier behavior nobody warns you about, in plain language, with real sources. We teach the law before the codes, because a code doesn't win an appeal. Knowing what that carrier is legally required to do wins the appeal.
If you've ever been told you're "just the biller," this show is for you. Downloads in 114 countries and counting. Bring your coffee and your worst denial.
The Dental Billing Podcast
Credentialing Do's and Don'ts with Jen Lyman - RDH
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
The fastest way to break a dental billing system is to assume the hard part starts after treatment. We sit down with Jen Lyman, now officially my co-host, and get honest about what really determines whether your dentistry turns into clean reimbursement: credentialing setup, correct identifiers, accurate provider records, and documentation that can actually support what you code.
Jen shares her path from full-time clinical hygiene to building Lyman Revenue Solutions, including the burnout and physical strain that pushed her out of the chair and into the revenue cycle world. From there, we dig into the credentialing pitfalls we see constantly, especially the Type 2 NPI issue that feels “optional” until you add an associate, open a new location, or stop practicing. We talk about how contracts tied to the wrong entity create messy fixes, compliance risk, and audit exposure that can reach years back.
We also get practical about operations: why provider list cleanup and fee schedule maintenance almost never happen inside practice management software, and how a monthly “billing CEO day” can prevent denials and confusion. Then we go deeper into coding and documentation, including the debates around CDT codes like D0180 and D4346, why coding is not the same thing as coverage, and why diagnosis codes on the dental claim form are becoming non-negotiable. If you want stronger claims, fewer surprises, and a team that speaks the same language from chairside to the front desk, this is for you.
Subscribe, share this with your office manager or lead hygienist, and leave a review so more dental teams can find the show and fix the problems that never should have started.
Registration Link for Diagnosis Codes on a Dental Claim Form Webinar:
https://dentiqhub-diagnosis-codes.vercel.app/
Get your Dental Billing Toolkit Here:
https://www.dentalbillingdoneright.com/the-dental-billing-toolkit
Download "The Most Underused Codes in Dentistry - And How to Get Them Paid" checklist here:
Schedule a billing chat with Ericka:
https://calendly.com/ericka-dentalbillingdoneright/30min
Email Ericka:
ericka@dentalbillingdoneright.com
Email Jen:
jen@dentalbillingdoneright.com
Jen Becomes Official Co-Host
SPEAKER_00Hi Jen. Hello. Welcome back to the Dental Billing Podcast.
SPEAKER_02Happy to be here.
SPEAKER_00And you're not just here as a guest. You're here.
SPEAKER_02Not this time.
SPEAKER_00No, you are officially the co-host of the dental billing podcast. So welcome to the team.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. Thank you. I'm so excited.
SPEAKER_01Yay, team.
SPEAKER_00I feel like we're doing this all day, every day.
SPEAKER_02Might as well just make it public.
SPEAKER_00Make it official. I know. And the listeners from the feedback that you get and the feedback that I get. I mean, I think people already think you're an official co-host. So why not make it official? So we change the artwork and you know, change the description and all the good things. But I want the listeners to really get to know you today and understand who Jen is as a person because we're going to be spending a lot of time together.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00So let's start in the beginning. What was Jen like as a little kid and where did you grow up?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I grew up in Bend, Oregon. I'm still in Bend. I have so much family here. So we're very centrally located to family that's three hours basically all around us. So we love it
Growing Up An Overachiever In Bend
SPEAKER_02here. It's beautiful. I have, well, I guess I'll go back to my childhood. So me as a kid, I was an overachiever. Like a thousand percent an overachiever. I was valedictorian in high school. I was captain of a lot of the sports teams. I always pushed myself to excellence, almost to my detriment, I would say sometimes. But very, very much a go-getter and always wanted to achieve things and please people. I would say the people pleasing kind of came back to bite me as I got older. But as a child, that's that's kind of where I was at. I did grow up with my parents separated. So that did bring some people pleasing into the mix as well. And I have a couple brothers who, you know, you have to fight for what you want when you have brothers. So I've got five.
SPEAKER_00So I they always did the fighting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I know. And my husband is the second oldest of seven. And so he was the same. But we met in high school. My husband and I met in high school, and we've been married for almost well, almost 17 years now. So it's been really fun. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you guys are such a great couple. I thank you for your family, like especially your son. He's a great kid, and your daughter too. I'm not saying anything, all the things I hear about him. I'm just like in awe of such he sounds like you almost because he's yeah, he's accomplished so much at such a young age, and he's a go-getter like you.
SPEAKER_02He has three businesses at 14.
unknownYep.
SPEAKER_00You guys, her son is amazing. He cooks, he cleans, he knows how to fix stuff, and he's uh a go-getter, just like his mom.
SPEAKER_02He is, he is. I know, but he is like something from a store recently. And I asked him, or actually, he called me and he was like, Hey mom, did you did you find that? And I said, No, I haven't found it yet. And he's like, Do you want me to call? So he called like 12 businesses while he was at work. He was working at somebody else's house and he was done. So he was like, What can I do to help now? And so he figured out how to call. And he was like, Mom, these these four places don't have it, but this one does, and we can get it next week. And then it's this this amount of money. And it's like, kid, you were like 14 going on 30. It's so fun.
SPEAKER_00So great. Oh my god. That does not surprise me to hear that you were Victorian and all the things. It was like, of course, Jen was. Um yeah, I mean, that remember being in Arizona with you, and your goal was to record as much B-roll as possible outside of the brain dumping that we did on a project that we're still working on together. Um but the B-roll, you you like you pushed me to the point where I was like, okay, I'm done. Like, I can't, and you were so tired by and I was ready to go eat, you know, and and you were just like, no, let's just do one more. Do go sit over there, look this way. And I was just like, okay, look to your left. I look to my right. And you're like, you're Yeah, I love that. I'm like other left. Oh my God, it does not surprise me. Okay, so let's bring it in. Bring it in. I always get sayings wrong. So for someone meeting you for the first time, right? You as Jen Lyman, how did you go from being a full-time hygienist to now owning Lyman revenue solutions of, you know, you do medical and dental billing. So,
Leaving The Chair For Billing
SPEAKER_00how did you make that transition? Like what made you do that? How long ago? All the things.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I feel like that's it's been a long time coming. So I was a hygienist, or I guess I am still a hygienist. I just don't practice clinically right now. And I loved patient care and I loved being in the dental practice, and I just love the camaraderie and the office staff and everything. But my back was just killing me. And my neck was killing me, and I was coming home completely overstimulated from lights, noise, being 100% all the time. And it it ended up getting to me. And it got to the point where I was trying to pick up my daughter. And, you know, practicing clinical hygiene for 15 years and trying to pick up a toddler who's 40 pounds didn't work out very well. And I ended up throwing out my back. And when that happened, I knew something had to change because if I can't pick up my kids, no career, no amount of money is worth that to me. And, you know, hygienists get paid very well. So that was a hard career to kind of think about even letting go. And going to school for hygiene, you go to something so specific that when you're when you think about getting out, there the options seem so limited. But I had known a few dental practice owners and I said, you know, I really want to get into the front office space. I don't know what that looks like, but I just want you to kind of be aware of that. And I started making that known within the dental community in my local area. And when it got to that point, that's when I just really went gung-ho, started networking, started talking to everybody, all of those things. I ended up leaving hygiene initially, thinking I was completely turning my back on dental and in general. I went to go be a healthcare recruiter. And when I did that, I learned so many things along that talking to people on the phone, making cold calls, like doing all of these random things that I had never done before. It was grueling work though. And I was working 60 plus hours a week. So I said, that's probably not for me. But through that came another networking opportunity, starting up a dental practice here locally where I live. And it was with a friend of a friend. She had recommended me and kind of just got down the line. When that came about, I accepted the job. I was the hygienist, the front office, the assistant, the credentialing manager, the office manager, everything. So I would go back and do hygiene, and then I'd like to finish up really quick. And I'm like, okay, let me walk you up. And then I'd sit down at the front desk and then check them out. And then I would send the claims and I would make the payments and I would do and I would, you know, schedule their next appointments, everything. So that was a real like way to get thrown to the wolves, right? Like just start. And that's kind of how it started. From there, I learned credentialing and contracting and billing and how to set everything up properly the right way. Learned a lot of mistakes along the way as well. And there was some times that I, you know, I was doing billing and I didn't know what to do. So I had a lot of mentors that I would look to, you being one of them. And there was one gal locally, her name's Corey, and she actually works with me now as one of my billers. And she had helped in ortho practice. She had also helped work in a general practice. She's been an office manager, she's been an assistant. She has a lot of knowledge and she was very patient and kind in explaining everything to me in detail. So she was wonderful. So that's kind of my story of how I went from clinical to front office. But overall, I've always wanted to do something on my own. Just wasn't sure what that looked like being a hygienist.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you're right. You know, you go to school for something so specific that when you just when you look at other options, you're thinking, what else can I do as a hygienist? Owning a billing company, as you know, we get hit up by a lot of hygienists that are ready to leave the chair. I get hit up by dentists who are just sick of being an associate, but they're not quite ready to be a practice owner yet. And they look for opportunity in the billing arena. I want to go back to what you said. You said credentialing. We are so lucky to have you on the team. Thank you. Because credentialing is like your superpower, and you undo a lot of other people's missteps. What would you say is one of the biggest credentialing mishaps you fix often?
SPEAKER_02Yes. I would say the biggest one and the one that I try to steer providers in initially is to get a type two NPI. And not a lot of opposition.
SPEAKER_00I'm just a single practitioner. I'm it's just me opening my practice. Why
The Type Two NPI Credentialing Trap
SPEAKER_00would I get a type two NPI?
SPEAKER_02Yes, that's what you think right now. But in 10 years or even in two years when you're burnt out, or you just want to break, or you want to get an associate, or your friend wants to move to where you're and you want to get an associate. It is a nightmare to try to fix contracts and credentialing if you do not set up your type two NPI with your tax ID at your service location. That is the biggest mistake that I see, not initially setting up your contracts that way. And that's a lot of things that we're trying to fix. And I can tell you, I've probably had four or five businesses, medical and dental, in the last like year or two, that initially set up their contracts under their social and their type one NPI. And it is brutal trying to get all of that fixed. So I just say from the get-go, if you do not have a type two NPI, get that, associate it with your tax ID, have your legal name of your LLC or whatever you're gonna have as far as your attorney says, and then have DPAs under that LLC because yeah, it is just a nightmare to try to fix. So set it up the right way. That way you have room to grow. If you don't ever grow, it's fine. You can still have a type two NPI, but at least you have the option down the road.
SPEAKER_00Well, that was a lot of information that people probably heard for the first time. I speak to a lot of, you know, I just spoke to a daughter of a dentist, and they want to open another location, and they have everything set up under his NPI one, you know. He is not practicing anymore. So boy, we have associates there, and so it's a nightmare. Absolutely. Oh boy, you know what's happening. They're billing after the owner's NPI as rendering provider because that's the only individual recognized at that location. And he will have to go get a type two NPI in order to add these associates to the existing contract. So it becomes very sticky. And I see a lot of offices that do that. They will bill under the owner's NPI as the rendering provider. And you guys, I work with my attorney, Justin Whitrow. He is my attorney for my billing company, and we're gonna have him on dental billing podcast. And he sees this stuff all the time. And I we just talked about it, Jen, about a mutual client that we have, and he is scared for this office. And he said, you know, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when the insurance companies figure it out. And Justin is defending dentists who did incorrect billing four or five years ago.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, he's doing those audits going that far back. And that's why he said about our particular client. He said, Yeah, well, I'm afraid for them because when this is when the insurance company figures this out, it's gonna be really ugly. And not having your entity or your group set up properly is the crux of everything, in my opinion. It's really not getting the practice set up properly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And the other thing I see is not updating your providers. So if you have a big group practice, there's a lot of times I'll go in to credentialing for different practices and they have like 20 providers. And I'm like, I know you have four. Yeah. Why are there 20 listed? And that creates a huge mess. Maybe the provider moved, like you know, that other one you were talking about. Maybe the provider moved, maybe they retired, maybe they're not practicing anymore. They should be completely exited out of that practice. But a lot of practices don't continually update and check that information. And so it's always super messy.
SPEAKER_00The fee schedules.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh, don't get me started on fee schedules.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I kind of threw that one in there. Like provider cleanup and fee schedule cleanup virtually never happen inside of a practice management software. And that's why you and I will always have jobs because it is such a mess. It is such a mess on the inside of these practice management softwares. And I I don't think it's because people don't know to do it. I don't want to take away from my office managers and my fellow billers. It's, you know, there's only so much time you have in a day, and you've got to focus on what is priority. And obviously, cash flow is king, and you know, getting those claims out in a timely manner is priority. So I totally get it. But I think that we should definitely intentionally put time aside to manage our billing departments a little better, clean up the provider list, clean up the fee schedules, update your fee schedules. That, yes, you're not going to have time to do that in a day, but you can make time for it, right? You just have to be more intentional about that. So, you know, that's that's something that I find is extremely important.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I think that just should give office managers and billers a little bit more time for that alone time, because I've noticed a lot of times we're inputting fee schedules
Cleaning Provider Lists And Fee Schedules
SPEAKER_02and then we get interrupted. And then we have to save and then figure out where we were. So I think once, even once a month, checking fee schedules, credentialing, making sure that you have everything, that could be done in a few hours, like half a day. If you're gone on Friday, have one day a month that you come in on a half day and get that done.
SPEAKER_00I think, you know, it's very much like what we do in our businesses. We carve out CEO days where we work on the business as opposed to working in the business. And for me, I like doing that. You know, the last Friday of every month is my CEO day where I'm really just working on the business, planning, checking the books, like really all of the things that a CEO has to do. But if I don't carve out that time, it's never going to get done. And if I were a practice owner, that looks like, you know, fee schedules not being accurate. It looks like providers being left in the practice management software, you know, just all of the things that need to happen on a what would you call it? Let's call it like a billing CEO day. You know, there has to be like a billing CEO day where you work on the department as opposed to working in the billing department. So I think that if others got more intentional about that, then we would see a lot more cleaner practice management systems, right? Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I want to shift gears because I want everyone to continue to get to know you. Let's talk about social media for a minute. So on social media, you are hygiene unlocked. You're on Instagram, TikTok. Are you on Facebook?
SPEAKER_02Yes, I'm on Facebook under coaching with Jennifer Leiban. But yes, I'm I'm probably just gonna change it to hygiene unlocked for everybody to make it easy to find.
SPEAKER_00Okay,
Unfiltered Social Media And Coding Fights
SPEAKER_00so hygiene unlocked. One of the things that I noticed about your social media is you are not afraid to say the things that most people are thinking, but they're not saying out loud regards to like billing, hygiene related to billing, front office things. You are the voice and you get pushback. I've seen a lot of comments, you really rub people the wrong way, and you're just kind of like, yeah, and like, and go kick rocks. Like you do not care and you don't hold back. And I love that style about you. So talk to us about your social media. What are some of the things that you've talked about that have really like kicked up a hornet's nest?
SPEAKER_02Oh boy, yeah, I would say, I mean, I finally, after your advice, opened up my social media platform and it has exploded in the last week. Over a thousand followers in the last seven days, which is absolutely insane. Over 50,000 views. It has been a really wild ride, but man, all the experiences that we talk about on here, and then you know, we deal with in our offices, and we have conversations and billing audits and all these things bring up all these conversations that need to be talked about. So I would say the biggest things that I've had pushback about are calling out certain codes. So D0180 is our bread and butter. Oh man, I got so much pushback about that. But it was really good conversations too about okay, so you know, there was a hygienist that commented that said, no. Oh, she goes, I said, maybe try switching out D0180 for D0150 if they qualify based on these requirements. And she goes, Nope, we bill out D0150 instead of D0180 because it doesn't get covered. And I was like, Okay. And I didn't know she was a hygienist initially, and I was like, okay, let's talk about this. And we kind of went through the whole rigmarole of everything. And she goes, Oh, okay, I'm a hygienist, so I don't really know. And I was like, come on, like this needs to be talked about.
SPEAKER_00With with social media, what I have found is that you know, there's a lot of keyboard ninjas out there, and there's a lot of people, there's a lot of outspoken people out there, and you know, you you have to be willing to put yourself out there if you want to help the overall community, right? Like you have to be willing to face those haters, as you would say, you know, as you would call them. Um but yeah, 180 and 4346, those two codes are so mysterious to the billing community, let alone hygiene. You know, I I do workshops all over the country, have been doing dental billing workshops for the past almost 15 years. And my audience is usually anywhere from like a hundred to a hundred and fifty people in attendance. And when we step on D4346, oh boy, it is Yeah, it's a whole conversation. An hour and a half, we get stuck on it because everybody chimes in. Yeah, it depends on the state that you're in, too, because Delta Dental of Virginia will pay less than a pro fee for 4346. And I'm these are dentists that are standing up and they're saying, Well, we're just gonna bill for a pro fee, even though we know we did 4346, there was more than 30% bleeding in the mouth, and the patient had, you know, fours and some pseudo-pockets and fives and all of the things. And it's like, but you know better, right? Like you still have to code for what you do. The the the idea around coding, I think, Jen, and I think you'll agree with me, is that people have created this conundrum of coding intertwined with pricing, with with how insurance companies pay. So when we're having a coding conversation, we are literally talking about telling the story through code. Take all fee schedules away from that, right? So you look at the clinical documentation and you tell the story through code.
SPEAKER_02Yes. And that's mostly what I talk about. I talk about, you know, honest feedback from dental offices, what they're afraid to say out loud that we just need to bring to the surface. I talk about a lot of documentation problems, period diagnosis, team accountability, and broken systems. So I'm never gonna blame one department because I've been both. Like I've been clinical, I've been billing, I still do both. And so I see the fragmented systems between the offices. So one thing that I'm really trying to bring to focus is how we can communicate better and how we can be a more cohesive team when it comes to billing and coding and documenting for what you do. You know, that that clinical note should tell a story. If you're just writing profifluoride blood pressure, and then their next visit, we have a lot of systems we need to fix. So I'm just trying to bring that to the fore. Front to where we can talk about documentation in the back and how that translates to billing.
SPEAKER_00So let's talk about that for a second for a second. Documentation. What does good documentation look like?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, I am a strong proponent of soap notes. I think that we need to make sure that we're being subjective and objective in our notes. So I really want to make sure that we have all of their medical history in there.
SOAP Notes And Better Clinical Storytelling
SPEAKER_02You know, we talk about diagnosis codes all the time. And I want to make sure that we have the information to be able to extract those diagnosis codes on the claim form. So medical history review, you know, medication review, we need to make sure that we're actually updating those things, not just reviewed health history, no changes. I really like a couple of the core things in documentation that I like to see are I like templates. I do like templates, but it needs to not be specific. So even in your template, it just needs to say like health history. And then you can put reviewed health history or any changes that were updated. And we need to ask pointing questions to actually get that out of the patient. I can't tell you how many times they're like any changes in your health history? No. Oh, I just had surgery last month. Okay, that's a change in your health history. Yeah. Yeah. So any hospitalizations, any new medications, any changes that we need to be aware of? Do we need to talk to your primary care provider? Has that changed? All of those things are important. When it comes to diagnosing in the exam notes, I like to have very specific. So if it's number 12, mesial decay seen on x-rays, you know, you put in the diagnosis code there, and then you're able to put in the recommended treatment. So it needs to be, it needs to flow. I always say more is better. Start with your templates, make sure those are solid, and then you can add to it from there.
SPEAKER_00Right. Now, from a let's talk about diagnosis codes. You and I are doing a training on September 1st.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00I did a post, I created a post for TikTok just stating that diagnosis codes are here, they're not going anywhere. And oh, by the way, I created a cheat sheet for diagnosis codes. And over 200 people,
Diagnosis Codes And The Future Claim
SPEAKER_00I think we're almost at 300 at this point, have requested the cheat sheet and will be attending the free training that we're doing on September 1st. Today is August 16th, 2026. So in a couple weeks. This is something that I've been advocating for since 2012. In 2012, the ADA created four markers on the dental claim form where you could start adding diagnosis codes because according to their crystal wall, and we are there now, insurance companies are now requiring diagnosis codes on claims. Blue Cross, Blue Shield, the federal plan, Medicaid for sure. You know, and then there are some small plans that have started. They don't request diagnosis codes, by the way. They ask for additional information.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_00And unless you know to ask, do I need to place diagnosis codes on this claim, you're going to miss it completely because most of the billers out there do not know about diagnosis codes. And they don't know that it's right in the back of your CDT book. The ADA has made it very easy for us to find the dental in nature diagnosis codes. And there's no reason for you not to be using them. We don't get those kinds of requests as far as additional information needed because you always place diagnosis codes on the claim form. You know, we all place diagnosis codes on the claim form because we know that it's a requirement with some plans. It's very hit and miss right now, but it's here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Now let's let's let's like pull the curtain back even more though. Now, how as billers, how can we do our best work if the clinical team is not doing theirs, right? Like it's a trickle-down effect. So if in the clinical note it says, you know, number three, zirconia crown, next visit delivery. Why? I need a diagnosis. Why? I can't guess. I need to get the diagnosis code from the clinical note. And even with that cheat sheet, we're not saying that's the be-all end-all, but it is to kind of, you know, like when you're gonna go swimming, you're dipping your toes in the water to kind of get used to the the temperature. That's what the cheat sheet is intended for. It's really not to use those specific diagnosis codes for those CDT codes. So, what's your take on that? Like you, you're a clinician as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. So I always say, and this is how I've taught all of the people that I've mentored as well, is we tell a story through our diagnosis codes. So everything from why the patient's walking in the door from everything that they need all the way to the end. So, you know, I really go through medical history. Again, that's something that is super important with diagnosis codes because a lot of things can be systemic. So if there's a systemic issue and it is diagnosed by a doctor, we cannot add that unless it has been diagnosed by a doctor. We can add that diagnosis that pertains to maybe why they have an increased risk for periodontal disease or cancer treatments, you know, different things that all go into that. The next thing that I look at when I'm looking at notes for a diagnosis code is their current status. So why they came in, their current status, and then what we need to do because of their status. So a lot of times I'm just gonna use period because I'm hygiene. You know, taking different medications that cause gentle inflammation or hyperplasia. Then we're talking about diabetes that also increases risk for perio. All those things tell the story. And then when they come in, where are they at today? Are they stage two, perio, grade C, whatever that is, that gives us insight onto what diagnosis code to add and how we can extract that. So a lot of the K codes are for perio. We can even diagnose down to a localized area, a generalized area. If it's chronic, acute, there are, I think, 20-something diagnosis codes just for perio. Unspecified is kind of your last resort, but there's chronic, acute, and then localized, generalized. And all of that is also coincides with what CDT code we use. So localized, chronic, or acute and or generalized. So through that, I'm able to tell that story and that explains and gives the narrative to the insurance company. Well, they came in because they have diabetes or at increased risk. Now they have period. Okay, we see that on the code form. And now we can verify it by the x-rays. As dental billers, we have a little bit more work to do than medical billers, honestly, because we're juggling two hacks here. We're saying, okay, we're gonna code, we're gonna tell you the medical story through the diagnosis codes. And also you still need the x-rays and the narratives and the clinical notes and everything, but we're still gonna give you both. So I'm actually looking forward to the day that it's only diagnosis codes because honestly, that's easier and more accurate than sending everything else.
SPEAKER_00And it has been talked about that the box 34, I believe, the remarks section, will be removed from the dental claim form in the future so that we are forced to tell the story with diagnosis codes. And that is a change that is gonna put a lot of people out of business in terms of, you know, billing positions. A lot of billers are not gonna be savvy enough to keep up with the times and stay relevant to dental billing as it continues to evolve into medical billing. I mean, I truly believe that dental billing, it's going to evolve right behind medical billing, and we will be using the same claim form and the same codes. And I think those of us that don't continue to evolve with the times, gonna find ourselves out of a job.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, and I think one more thing, kind of to add to the diagnosis code story, is in dentistry, a lot of the dentists that are reviewing your information are checking, you know, the narrative, the x-rays, the clinical notes, things like that. They don't have that in medical because they trust the provider is diagnosing according to what the patient has. And there's no questioning as much as there is in dentistry. I know there's a little bit, but it's not nearly as much because they use the diagnosis codes as the proof.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Yeah, that's it. We we both have billed medical and we know that there is no remark section on a medical claim. No, you tell the story in diagnosis codes. So we are trending that way. It is actually here. Okay, so one last question before we before we sign off. Why did you join the dental billing podcast as my co-host? And does this feel like a next chapter? Like, tell talk to us about why you decided to join. Because I've been asking you to join me as my co-host for at least two years. Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I would say there's a few reasons.
Why Jen Joins And Advice For Billers
SPEAKER_02You know, we talk about so many things, and over the phone, I would be like, man, that would be a really great podcast episode. You need to do that. She would be like, okay, let's do it, Jen. And so I think we both talk about things, but we in the same issues, but we approach them very differently. And I, you know, I bring the clinical perspective, and you also bring, you know, the training and the education perspective to where we can bring and like bridge that gap between chair side and clinical, clinical judgment to billing. Yeah. And we're able to kind of bridge that gap between each other. So I like that we can connect like clinical outcomes with financial outcomes. That's the biggest thing that I really want to hone in on on this podcast. My role, I feel like, is to connect those two and where clinically we can improve to better support our billing team and how the billing team can better support the back office team. And I feel like we also challenge each other in a lot of ways that maybe some other billers and clinicians maybe wouldn't, but we're so comfortable with each other that we're like, wait, let's talk about that.
SPEAKER_00Wait, hold on, that didn't sound right. Hold on.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so we have the hard conversations.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I love that. And I wish pe more people would be willing to unpack things that typically make people uncomfortable, but I think first you have to feel comfortable with the person. And we've definitely gotten to that point where, you know, behind the scenes, we're kind of goofy, you know. I don't think people realize like how goofy we are. You know, we we're both Christian women. Yeah, we're both all about our families. We we share a lot of similarities outside of work, you know, and we enjoy a good girl laugh, you know, a little giggle here and there on some silly things. Yeah. What I love about not only our friendship, but like in doing business is that we're both people that just want to help. All of that just comes together beautifully. And you had been talking about starting your own podcast for a while. And I I remember I'd have coaching sessions, unofficial coaching sessions with you. And just trying to get you to do, I'm like, yes, Jen, you you we need your voice in dentistry. And yeah, I'm gonna do it, you know. And and I think you were just you had so much going on with family and yeah, all the things. So it was like, I'll get to it, I'll get to it. And yeah, meanwhile, you just kept showing up on the dental billing podcast. I was like, it just makes sense for you to be a co-host here. So I know I think we have given an example of your clinical perspective and my teaching and coaching perspective, even in this episode when you talked about diagnosis codes, you know, like it, you you heard that come through clinically on your end. And I think that that's gonna be a great component for the podcast moving forward. So I want to, on behalf of the listeners, we're all excited to have you. And thank you. I'm sure everyone's gonna look forward to learning from you and welcome aboard. Yeah. What's one thing you would tell a new biller today?
SPEAKER_02That's a great question. I would say be a constant learner. I think that is one thing that billing lacks is being open to conversation, open to mentors, open to different ways of doing things, even diagnosis codes. We've we talked to a company the other day, a software company, that was like, wait, there's a diagnosis place on the claim for.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02And we had to bring it up for that. Yeah, yeah. I would say for billers, be open to learning, be open to different conversations that make you uncomfortable, and then question those things and figure out where that information's coming from. That is the one thing on social media that I wish was more so people coming from a place of trying to understand rather than just defensive, because I'm happy to answer questions. I answer every comment on my social media, and it is me answering. And I wish that more people were open so I don't have to come across as actually, this is the way that we need to do things, but be open, be willing to learn, and reach out to people if you don't know. If you don't understand, reach out to one of us. We're happy to help. And I hope that you follow along.
SPEAKER_00We always reply. I hear that all the time on my TikTok, which is where I am most active. And I always hear, wow, I didn't expect a reply or a response. And it was like, is that really? Why would you have an account if you're not going to reply to your people? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, that comes back to our mission. We want to help. Like we truly do.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So tell everyone officially where they can find you on social media. How can they get in touch with you, Jen? If somebody wants to continue the conversation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I am pretty active on TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook now under hygiene unlocked. You can find me on there. It'll just be my photo, and I'll share a lot of fun information. I would say
Where To Find Jen Online
SPEAKER_02TikTok is the more fun one.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Where I'll do, I'll be really blunt on there. Facebook and Instagram are a little more professional, but TikTok is fun. And you know, we get to talk about things that aren't brought up as much. So and then on now on here.
SPEAKER_00I have to say TikTok is your unfiltered social media.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Yeah, it's fun. I get to bring up all sorts of fun things.
SPEAKER_00This has been great, Jen. Welcome to the podcast. We cannot wait. I can't wait for the listeners because I know what we have in store for them and the next level episodes that we're going to bring to the dental billing podcast. So until the next episode.
SPEAKER_02All right.
SPEAKER_00See you guys next time.
.JPG)