The Dental Billing Podcast

Increasing Case Acceptance with Manuella Felix-Brodfuerer

• Ericka Aguilar • Season 8 • Episode 5

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Can emotional intelligence be the secret ingredient to achieving high case acceptance rates in dental practices? Join us for a compelling conversation with Mani, a seasoned dental professional with over three decades of experience, as she takes us through her journey from a humble receptionist to a successful practice owner. With a strong focus on the human connection, Mani reveals the profound impact of reading body language and building trust with patients, and how these skills have driven her remarkable success in the field.

In this episode, we uncover the essence of building authentic relationships in dentistry. Mani shares an inspiring story of being recognized by Nobel Biocare for her exceptional implant placements during the 2009 recession, illustrating the power of genuine patient connections over transactional interactions. By establishing trust and value, Mani provides insights on how emotional intelligence can significantly enhance patient satisfaction and contribute to practice growth, highlighting the dynamic between analytical thinkers and empathetic feelers in achieving this balance.

As we wrap up, we delve into Mani's passion for mentorship and her journey with Livv Consulting. Celebrating her accomplishments, including her impressive work in top surgery centers and her dedication to guiding the next generation, the episode underscores the importance of collaboration and mentorship in the dental industry. With heartfelt discussions and valuable insights, this episode promises more enriching conversations with Mani in the future, leaving listeners eager for what's to come.

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Speaker 1:

Manny, thank you so much for being on the Dental Billing Podcast. This is a long time coming. We've had so many conversations behind the scenes, as with most of my guests. I typically know them and you and I go way back Before we get into the meat and potatoes of the episode. Why don't you let the audience know who you are, what you do in dentistry currently? Let us know who Manny is.

Speaker 2:

Oh, thank you. Hello everyone, my name is Manuela. Everyone calls me Manny and I love going by that name. I've been in dentistry for as long as I've been alive 35 years. I've been in dentistry for a long time, Started at the bottom, the foundation of a practice, as a receptionist, and I worked myself all the way up to a C-level job running an oral surgery practice and now I actually own my own practice with my husband and it's been really exciting because my background really is oral surgery Most of my career 30 years. In the last five years I find myself in private practice and it's been really fun. It's been really a fun journey for me. I've done it all. I've scrubbed instruments, I've done hard building. I've done it all.

Speaker 1:

I've taken cash out as practice owners, you still got to be willing to scrub the toilet sometimes. I mean, it's just lead by example. So I want to let the audience know how we met. I met you because you were running an oral surgery practice out of Lake Elsinore I believe it was in that area. I believe it was in that area.

Speaker 1:

You reached out to the college that I had back then looking for someone to jump in. You guys had a last minute cancellation for your study club that you ran. I said okay, I'd never done it before, it was something new, and I was like I would love to do it. I do public speaking. So I thought what's the difference, study club versus 100 people in a room? I had a lot of fun. And then you went to another oral surgery center and you asked me to go to that one.

Speaker 1:

And then in between all that we kept in touch with all the girl stuff and just stayed friends and it's been a long journey. We've seen each other just go through so much on a personal level and I admire you for the professional that you are, because behind the scenes sometimes we're going through things that we just don't show when we are in our day-to-day grind right. So I admire how professional you have maintained and all the things you have accomplished, which is why I wanted to bring you on the podcast, because you have a superpower and your superpower is my weakness. I am not a confident presenter. You know treatment presenter, specifically with large cases, I can bill like nobody's business medical, dental but I want to talk about your superpower, what you help other people learn how to do better. Before I do that, I want to segue into that topic.

Speaker 1:

So lately for my business, I've been doing a lot of trainings around medical billing for implants. That just seems to be the buzz in dentistry right now for offices that are incorporating implants into their office the all on four cases. You know things like that. I thought that it would be great to bring you on the podcast because what you do is like perfect combination, or your superpower is like such a perfect combination to what I do in teaching them how to build medical for it. Talk to us a little bit about how you honed in on your presentation skills because you have such a high acceptance percentage. How did you develop that Like when was? Did you have an aha moment at some point where you were like this I'm really good at this. I can present large cases. Talk to us a little bit about that.

Speaker 2:

Erica, I want to remind you we've known each other almost 15 years. Erica, I want to remind you we've known each other almost 15 years. Oh my gosh, it's been that long. It was like 15 years ago, I think, when I first was looking for you for a speaker. So it's been an amazing 15 years of a beautiful friendship and I admire you as well. You are my typical best friend. You're my thinkers, my thinkers of the world. I love them and I believe that I have developed this great skill with presentations because I'm a deep feeler. So I always say make sure your practice has a thinker like Erica and a feeler like Manny. It is the perfect combination.

Speaker 1:

So when you're such a yes.

Speaker 2:

So when you're such a feeler you feel things, you feel you can read body languages I always say hire a treatment coordinator that has those skills, that can read people. Please do not hire a thinker that is sitting there just thinking of the numbers. How are we going to get the insurance to bill this? No, hire someone that has the people skills, that can read individuals and that can gain the patient's trust. Gaining the patient trust is the key to any practice, your practice, where they will completely be exceptionally successful just by having someone they can trust in the practice. Of course they have to practice their trust their dentist, of course, their surgeon, their dentist but if they have that special connection with someone, which I've been very blessed that I was, you know, born with that, I was born with that and I get these connections with patients and they tell me the most random things and then I have to bring them back to do this all on four. Let's get that money from you, let's get your treatment done, you know. Let's get them to accept this.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's a good point. I love how you categorize that, like, yeah, you're right, I am a thinker because I'm sitting there going how are we going to get insurance to pay this? And you're feeling the patient's emotions and you're reading body language. You said something earlier about you. Gotta what, what was it? When I asked you the question, you said I um really, I am a deep feeler.

Speaker 2:

I'm very deep feeler. I connect with people. Um, I feel like, uh, my EQ level is higher than most individuals, um, and that is the reason why I'm able to connect with um human beings, um, and I connect with human beings at their level, because we all have different levels.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I think EQ is so important With everything like I honestly want to start a whole other podcast just dedicated to EQ, because I could talk about that all day long. Let's talk about that for a second so that for the listeners that don't know what EQ is, what is EQ and why do you think that it's so important to successful case acceptance?

Speaker 2:

So EQ is your emotional intelligence, and we all have it, just the way we have the IQ. Eq is very, very crucial because that helps you understand the emotional emotion of another human being. So I can understand emotions. It is just my temperament, it's who I am and I can understand it, more so than most people. But I can teach you too. I can teach you, erica, having this high level of IQ, how to be an emotional person.

Speaker 2:

And just because you have someone like you presenting a treatment plan, that doesn't mean that you don't have emotion. It's just how you do it and how you present it. You can't present a treatment plan the way you do it, by thinking, oh, insurance is going to pay this. No, you're going to go at an emotional level with the patient. So I think that's really really my success.

Speaker 2:

In all the practices I've worked at, it has been because I understand that and I've taught hundreds of people how to do that. I've taught people like you that are, you know, really thinkers how to do that, and my thinking buddies are the ones that have helped me how to process things and how to think and it's a really cool mesh. Once you understand, like the IQ and the EQ. It's really cute. And then you start thinking of, like the patients, like, oh, you know, like, oh, he's a thinker, she's a thinker, he's a feeler, she's a feeler. And you kind of go to their level and it's you know, teaching staff members that it excites them. They're like oh, manny, I just had, I just had a thinking patient and I did it this way. Or I had an emotional patient and I did it this way. That's really a fun concept to learn no-transcript.

Speaker 2:

So a thinking patient is always going to be a very logical human being. The way they speak they're very logical. They don't care about the emotion behind the treatment plan. They want the logic. They want to know. Erica, your treatment plan is $10,000. Your insurance company is going to pay $8,000. Your out-of-pocket is $2,000. Straightforward just to the point. That was music to my ears, by the way.

Speaker 2:

Yes, exactly For me. If you presented that treatment plan to me, I'd be like, okay, and you would not have me. But an emotional patient like me, you say, oh my goodness, erica, I am so excited you are going to be getting this all on four. I'm sure you've been waiting for such a long time. It doesn't matter where you've been, it's where you're going that this matters, and it's so wonderful that you can actually get this done. Let me explain to you what's going to happen, and you have to walk them through the entire process and tell them this is going to cost you $25,000 per arch, $30,000 per arch but you got them so excited that I'm telling you they're giving you the credit card. That's just how you do it. I mean, so those are the two people that we have in our world, someone that is a complete thinker.

Speaker 2:

If you do that, you lost them. There was too many words involved, too much emotion, and sometimes it can come across as a little fake too, and thinkers don't like that. They want authentic. They want you to be honest with them. You know, even if you don't know exactly what the insurance company is going to pay, use the terminology as like I anticipate your insurance company to pay up to this amount. We will do our best to get it, but you have to be very straightforward with your thinkers. The more words you use, the happier we are.

Speaker 1:

Well, and that is that's the case with me too many. Like I always tell people, if I were to describe myself like in my work environment, I don't want to read the book. Just tell me who did it. Just get to the point. I'm not interested in all of the details. Details stress me out. So just you know when when you're emailing me and I always tell my staff when you're emailing me, bullet points. Don't send me a story because most likely I'm not going to read the entire story. I just want to get to the point, because I'm skimming, I'm looking through it to figure out what, how I can help you, what I need to respond with. And you're right, when it gets too emotional, like the oh, my gods and that all of the emotional language that can be thrown in, I will interpret that as fluff.

Speaker 1:

So, to me it feels like you're hiding something or you're leading up to something. Get to the point, tell me what my bottom line is and let's get this over with so I can see how you and I are that way. We're so different in that sense that and neither is wrong or right, that's just how we're hardwired as human beings, right? So I think the point of you being know, you being able to identify the thinkers and understanding how to present and just a note to the audience, manny just gave you the secret sauce. Like she basically said identify your thinkers are logical. I would say, pay attention to how they're answering your questions. Like, how was your visit today? I'm going to just say something like it was fine, it was great. You know, straight to the point.

Speaker 1:

I'm not going to use emotional language Like oh, my God, it was so amazing, but you got to pay attention to that. Yeah, I mean, it's paying attention to how they're responding to your questions and then putting them into that box, right, manny? So like, if they're a logical thinker they're, they're going to be more likely, straight to the point. Or if they are emotional, they're going to use more of that emotional language and you want to mirror your delivery so that it's received. Well, it's not we're not doing this to bait and switch, or it's? It's really so that we can have the patient accept treatment that they do need, right, so talk to us about I mean, just just walk us down memory lane and talk to us about some of the largest cases, or what was your first big case where you thought, oh my gosh, I could actually do this Like was it scary for you in the beginning? How did that go?

Speaker 2:

So I kind of want to go back to the last conversation. I think you have to be authentic. That's the word I need to use. You cannot. If you're not authentic, you're never going to have a successful practice. Where you are doing lots of case conversions, it's not going to happen. You need to have a real authentic person believing in the quality of the work that the surgeon, the dentist are doing. If you have that person that is like the golden ticket in your practice, if you have that person that is like the golden ticket in your practice because they are going. And then you have to also have a staff member. So if you have a very emotional doctor, you can have an emotional treatment coordinator. It has to be a thinking doctor with an emotional treatment coordinator. And I think that has been my success because most oral surgeons are completely thinkers, most dentists are completely thinkers, so they present to the patient on a thinking mind. And then if you have someone that's emotional and can connect with the patient on that emotional, it's perfect.

Speaker 2:

I didn't realize I was really good at treatment planning. I never really thought I was good. I just knew that I had like great case acceptance because I've always, you know, had it tracked and everything. But then in 2009, the recession happened and I had this call from the CFO of Nobel Biocare that is who we worked with exclusively in this practice and he says I have a question for you. Who does all the treatment planning? And then at the time my receptionist says Manny does. And he's like can I speak to her? So I got on the phone and he's like hi, this is so-and-so and I'm with Noble BioCare. I just want to know how in the world is your practice placing so many implants? And to me it was kind of an interesting question. And then I said we just are. He's like well, you are placing the most implants in this entire country, in a small town in Temecula. And then I said we are.

Speaker 2:

And I was kind of shocked. I said we are, and then he says you are. And then he's like I'd like to come and you know, see how you do this. Is that okay? And I said absolutely, let me ask my surgeon. I should, it should be okay. And I asked the surgeon. He says oh my goodness, what an honor. He came in and he followed me around. And then at the end I said what did you think? And he says, oh my God, you speak nothing about implants, you just connect with these people on a personal level, and that is the key, that is the success. He's like I'm gonna go, but that is it.

Speaker 1:

So that was like my aha moment 2009 huge aha moment by the way to have the CFO of Nobel come out and say your office is placing the most implants in the country and we're in a recession. How in the world are you doing this? So that's a huge testament to like the connection that you share with your patients, right? I believe that when somebody is inquiring about implants all on floors, they know it's going to be a lot of money. I mean, this is like buying a very expensive car or nice down payment on a house, and you're able to have that connection with them, help motivate them to accept treatment. It's not necessarily a sales conversation, right? So some people would say that's a sales conversation. It's not. It's really a relationship building conversation. Would you agree with that?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, absolutely. You have to build that relationship. If you don't build that relationship, it feels like a sales.

Speaker 1:

It just feels like a transactional Thank you, and I don't build that relationship.

Speaker 2:

It feels like a sales. It just feels like a transactional Thank you, and I don't like it. Even you, Erica, as a thinker, you don't like that. You don't want to feel like you just bought a used car. No you want to actually have. You know you have to have value in what you just purchased.

Speaker 2:

And I think you know, putting that value is such an important, important thing and a lot, of, a lot of offices just don't do it. It starts from the top. It starts from the doctor putting the value to having someone put it together as a treatment coordinator, office manager, whoever does the treatment planning Crucial, crucial, very important, or whoever does the treatment planning Crucial crucial, very important.

Speaker 1:

I think you just hit the nail on the head when you were talking about, like you know, a lot of times these treatment coordinators are coming at it from a more transactional standpoint.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

It's not a relational and there's two ways to do business. You know, this is in my opinion. I don't like people to feel like we're you're just a transaction. I don't want any of my clients feeling like that. I want them to feel like we have a bond, a relationship, because I truly get involved in their personal lives.

Speaker 2:

Me too.

Speaker 1:

That is something that I've talked to my team about and I think that Doctors, practice owners, should really be more intentional about being more of a relational standpoint, the building relationships, because too many times, manny, and you know this, our team members are looking at everything as a transaction and we forget about that human element to business. And you know, with everything being so automated and everything being so like you know, just, there's less and less human involved in these transactions. So, specifically about presenting these large cases, I think that's the gold of, I mean, if they, if this audience takes away anything, it's going to be that one thing is build relationships and just like that CFO from Nobel said, my goodness, you don't even talk about implants. So what did your conversation sound like? I mean, how did you get people to say yes and you didn't even talk about implants?

Speaker 2:

So how we did it at this practice. It was an oral surgery practice and I was what we call the implant coordinator. That was the role that I had. How we did it is I would start the consultation with the patient. So I came in, I'm going to use the name Erica, I'm going to say Hi.

Speaker 2:

Erica I'm Manny, so nice to meet you. I would actually go over the health history with the patient and then I would say, okay, any allergies? Let's talk about your health. And then why are you here today, erica? And they'd say, well, my dentist referred me over. And most of the time they would say I'm so embarrassed to be here. It's been such a long time. I knew right there they were embarrassed, so they were already apprehensive.

Speaker 2:

I would walk in and I would go over the health history with the patient and then I would ask him why are you here today? And then they would tell me why they were there and I would pick up on something. And sometimes, most of the time, it'd be like I'm so embarrassed that I haven't taken care of my teeth, or this has happened or whatever has happened in their life. And I would kind of tap into that and one of my favorite lines to use and everybody feel free to use this it's not where you've been, it's where you're going that matters. And they all did this, like their shoulders would go down, they felt discomfort, and then we would just talk about how long have you lived in town? I literally had seven minutes. It was timed seven minutes to go over all this, my health history with my patients, build a human connection. Then I would go.

Speaker 2:

Once I did that, I said I'll be right back, I'm going to go get the doctor. I would tell the doctor a little bit of what was going on. I would walk in with the doctor and then I say, doctor, I have Erica here today. Erica is very healthy, 40 year old, no medications, nothing. So he doesn't have to do that anymore. We've already gone over that. And then I would say, erica, did I miss anything today? And Erica would say no. And then he's like oh well, welcome to our practice. And then the patient would always say well, maddie's gone over everything.

Speaker 1:

She's told me what these extractions are going to be like When's my surgical appointment? Oh, wow, and it was always like that I mean honestly, as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking to myself I don't think I need any implants, but if I did, I would certainly go to you because I feel comfortable with you.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I'm sure the audience is going to feel how your approach just makes people feel comfortable because it's so true. I mean, the average American doesn't go to the dentist for five to 10 years. I mean there are some serious dental avoiders out there and when they come in they don't want to be lectured about why they stayed away for 10 years. They want somebody. As you said you know. Their shoulders drop and they just they're able to exhale and say OK, I'm safe here. Yes, right, like it's.

Speaker 2:

It's providing that psychological safety that patients need when they know that they have some issues going on and, like you said, you know, a lot of them are embarrassed about what's going on in their mouth and a lot of these all on fours too are patients that are either very successful and have had no time to come to the dentist because they've been traveling the world or business, or there's people that have gone through different walks of life and have made certain decisions and they're embarrassed for those decisions, and it's it's. You know, half the time I was sitting in there crying with them because of the decisions that they felt were so horrible, but I would tell them all the time you're alive and you're here. That's how that matters, it's not about where you've been.

Speaker 1:

It's about where you go. Yes, yes, I'm gonna steal that from you. I'm sure a few of the audience members will do that as well. So, manny, if there was one thing that you could teach our audience I mean, you may have already mentioned it, but if there was one thing that you know, maybe somebody's thinking gosh, I wish I could get better at treatment coordination, treatment planning. What would that one thing be? Where could they start, I think?

Speaker 2:

one of the things is I, you know, I do training and practices and a lot of people tell me all the time I can't be like you, I can't be warm and fuzzy like that, or I can't be that thinker. I just say make a change for yourself, you know, because I think once you make that decision yourself, it just you become a better human being. You know, it's like once you start listening to other humans, you'll start enjoying it, you'll start enjoying it. So I think it's like once you start listening to other humans, you'll start enjoying it, you'll start enjoying it. So I think it's just have fun with it. That's one of the things I want to teach people. Have fun with it, enjoy your jobs. Dentistry has become such a lost art and no one wants to get into it anymore and it's sad because it could be so fun to be around people teaching them things, talking to them about dentistry. And, you know, I just think it's something that we should all do and have fun with it.

Speaker 1:

Oh, absolutely Be a better, active listener 100%. High five. That because I think, rather than thinking about how you're going to respond to the patient, let them talk, feel the conversation, pay attention to the words they're using and, I think, focus on making them feel safe 100%.

Speaker 2:

Not always about I don't believe it's always about the money, because the money comes if you're doing the right thing for the patient, you know. That's why.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but you are, you are proof in the pudding. You are the proof in the pudding, you know, with Nobel giving you that you know, you don't even talk about implants. I mean that funny. You never, you never shared that story with me, so that was the first time I heard it. I think that's amazing, like that's, that's some serious street cred.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I know it was, it was fun, it was. It was a really fun call and it was really exciting and it was definitely. I think that was the aha moment of like I am really good at what I do want our listeners to know how they can get in touch with you.

Speaker 1:

How, if they have any questions, can they email you? What? How would somebody, if they have a question, get in touch with you?

Speaker 2:

So my company name is live consulting. I'll IVV and I named my company because I believe in dreaming and living passionately, so that's kind of why I named my company this way. It's liveconsultingcom, and my email is consultantmanny1 at gmailcom. Reach out to me anytime, any questions, I'm always answering them. Feel free to reach out. I love to help people. I love building people up. That is what I'm most passionate about. I do believe that that is why I was placed on this earth to build up people. I have two amazing daughters that I've built up. They're growing super successful. Now it's time to build the rest of the next generation of young ones.

Speaker 1:

Speaking of your daughters, they're powerhouses. Yes, they are. I know you've got one is an attorney. And what does your other daughter do?

Speaker 2:

My older daughter is an attorney. She's going to be partner at the end of the year. I'm super proud of her at the seven year mark, so I'm really happy about that. And then my little one. She has a master's degree and she's working on her doctorate degree while she has a three year old little boy and working at an amazing company as a director. They're really great girls.

Speaker 1:

They have an amazing mother, so definitely having a great example of a strong woman. So I applaud you for that, thank you. Thank you for sharing. I drive them crazy with my emotion, but that's okay. Thank you for sharing.

Speaker 2:

I drive them crazy with my emotion, but that's okay.

Speaker 2:

Yes, it was so much fun. Erica, Thank you very much for this. This is so much fun. I'm very excited about the future and I want to give Erica a big shout out because she has helped my practice. You know be where we're at today, so she's helped me get out of these pesky little PPOs and you've helped me learn how to do all this amazing billing. We're out of PPOs so anyone can do it with Erica's help. If you want to get out, give her a shout, She'll teach you and I can teach you myself as well. So thank you, Erica. I appreciate your friendship.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for the shout out. I did not expect Thank you so much. I mean we have done. We've worked together for a long time. It's been a pleasure, thank you. Serving your practice absolutely and being your friend. So thank you so much, Manny, for being on the podcast and I hope that a lot of the listeners take notes. And I hope that a lot of the listeners take notes and if you need to re-listen to this episode, go back and listen to how Manny was able to be the number one.

Speaker 2:

I was presenting the biggest treatment plans in the nation when it was during the worst time, during the recession, back 2009,. We were placing over 500 implants in that practice, which is, you know, for one doctor 2009,. That's a lot of implants in a recession. And I've also been part of other surgery practices, I'm almost sure. Here in San Diego I did run the number one surgery center for all on fours and we played tons and tons of all on exits, all on fours, tons of them. And I can you know I worked with you know medical insurance with that. Most of the time I collected up front and we helped you on the backend. But I, yeah, we've done a lot together.

Speaker 1:

Erica. We've done a lot. We have, and we're just getting started. So I know that we have. We have some big plans together. So you guys stay tuned, manny. This is not going to be her last time on the podcast. So, manny, until the next time you're on the podcast. Thank you so much for all of the gems that you just shared with the audience. I'm sure they're going to look forward to hearing from you again.

Speaker 2:

Awesome. Thank you, Erica.

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Ericka Aguilar

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